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Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Footage of the 1981 Reagan assassination attempt - crowd ducks around President's limousine as Reagan is pushed by Secret Servicemen into limousine
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Attorney General Edwin Meese tells the press the White House supports the legislation being passed by Congress, Right now there is an attempt to bring it to the Floor of the House and we don t see any basis to change the essential recommendation of the administration which is to be affirmatively in favor of the legislation.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Images of Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire Arms documents which are against the bill.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
The lobbying efforts of Sarah Brady wife of White House Press Secretary Jim Brady.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Sarah Brady explains why she wants a waiting period for background check of gun buyers. John Hinckley for instance, wouldn t have been able to purchase the gun he used to shoot the President and my husband if there had been a background and waiting period. Because he went into Texas. He was not a resident of the state of Texas. And he lied on his federal form. But of course nobody checked. There was no law in effect that forced them to check and see that he lied. So he was able to walk out with a gun.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Wayne LaPierre, NRA representative, rejects background checks. Criminals don t walk into gun stores and buy their guns. They buy them on the black market or they steal them. And that s the type of activity we think you need to target and go after. But you don t have your criminal walking in and filling out forms. If you do all these background checks, they are going to be made against law-abiding folks, tying up police resources. And again, you get a diversion in the regulatory area, away from the real problem on the street.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Baltimore police officer says that Firearm Owners Protection Act will make it that much more difficult to combat crime. I see no end to it. I can t see it getting any better if they lax the laws or relax the laws that they ve got now. They re just going to make it easier for people to buy them. And it s going to be twice as hard for us out here to control them.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Back to TV studio where Carter segues to discussion he had earlier with Representatives Harold Volkmer and William Hughes who have each sponsored their own bills revising gun control, Representatives discuss their respective bills and give their divergent takes on the NRA.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, Congressman Volkmer, I think in some ways the burden is on you because the number of organizations that are officially behind this version or were against what came out of the Senate. Harold Volkmer (D - Missouri), Yes, what came out of the Senate is not what is being proposed by me on the Floor. Another thing I d like to point out, is that the law enforcement organizations as such, that are opposing it, doesn t necessarily mean that law enforcement officials all over the United States take the same position, specifically in my district I had a number go out publicly for my position that are sheriffs, that are chiefs of police, etc. And therefore, I feel that this idea that all law enforcement is opposed is not quite accurate. William Hughes (D - New Jersey), Well, first I think that Harold is absolutely right. I think that he has made some major improvements in the substitute. I think the hearing process worked. We pointed out a number of major flaws in the so-called McClure-Volkmer Bill and many of those have been changed. There are a number of other provisions however, serious provisions, that present a direct threat to police officers.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, Is there a question in either of your minds as to whether or not the very effective lobbying of the NRA actually represents indeed a majority feeling of the American people? Is the NRA representative of the larger view? William Hughes (D - New Jersey), Well, I can tell you that the NRA is out of step with the vast majority of people. Their efforts to bully and intimidate their way into the decision making process has been counter-productive. They don t represent the views of the vast majority of citizens who want to balance the interest of the sportsmen against the interests of society to be able to protect themselves from those that abuse weapons.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, And that, I don t think, fits your description of the NRA at all. Harold Volkmer (D - Missouri), It doesn t fit my description. I think the NRA truly represents the feeling of the majority of people in my district, in my area, especially in the Mid West and the West. There is no question in my mind that the majority of the people in my district strongly support what I m doing here in this regard. That they don t believe in strong gun control legislation. That they do feel that law-abiding citizens should have the right to acquire a gun, whether it is a hand gun, a rifle, or a shot gun.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
William Hughes (D - New Jersey), I believe that people have a right to own, posses hand guns. I, first of all, for many years hunted with my father and my family. So, I m sensitive to those concerns. And the NRA, at one time, was concerned about hunting, and training. They ve done a great deal of good work trying to sensitize hunters to important things that hunters are confronted with. Trying to increase our sensitivity to our need to conserve. But unfortunately over the last few years they ve become much more extremist, with regard to for instance with things like machine guns. Why would anybody have to own a machine gun? Why would anybody have to have a silencer? That s a contract murder type piece of equipment. And yet they oppose the banning of silencers.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, On the issue of the measures themselves, what exactly is a prime issue between your two versions? How would you describe the issue? William Hughes (D - New Jersey), Well, there s about 8 different areas. I mentioned silencers. In our legislation we banned silencers. They have no sporting value. There is some language, and Harold is attempting to clean it up. I don t think he s done what we would like to see by way of machine guns kits, although he s developed some language, we think that can be improved. Harold would put guns and their restrictions above everything else. For instance, in order to convict a druggist of selling narcotic substances, we require a knowing standard. The Volkmer Bill would require a willful standard, which is a much higher standard. Hodding Carter, For sales to people who are otherwise not qualified to buy. William Hughes (D - New Jersey), That s right, unqualified people, felons and so forth. In addition to that, Harold would provide for interstate transportation of weapons, interstate sale of weapons. Transportation for instance, that would mean the individuals could carry an unloaded, inaccessible hand gun in their automobile for any purpose, interstate. Interstate begins in a state, so you have a state developing one standard for its residents, but anybody that claims they are interstate could carry the hand gun as long as it s not accessible. I don t know what accessible means.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, That s a lot of issues and I want to stop it here and let you pick up on each of those before we go any further. Harold Volkmer (D - Missouri), Well I think we addressed the issue with the question of willfulness and knowingness . It is a difference between us. And we feel that because of past abuses by the ATF in the 70s, that we need this language as far willful violations against knowing violations. Hodding Carter, Why, because people were harassed? Harold Volkmer (D - Missouri), Yes. And I can go, if we had the time, I go into many instances where abuses were bought out in hearings the United States Senate. What amuses me is that the judiciary of the House never address those abuses, never had hearings on those abuses themselves, but the Senate did. And there s quite a bit of testimony on that. So that s were a lot of this legislation came about. It s because of those abuses. We don t feel that just because I own a rifle, shot gun, or hand gun that I ve given up my Civil Rights and that s basically what we re trying to address. As far as interstate transportation, yes. But we make sure in our legislation - in the substitute that you have to be a qualified person. You cannot be a felon or anything else and use this. You have to be a qualified person to transport a gun. I d like to point out that in April, one of the leading competitions, pistol competitions, is going to be held in my district in Missouri. And it s held there, it s been held there for several years. You wouldn t be able to hold that competition under Hughes bill. Hodding Carter, Because of the carrying guns across lines Harold Volkmer (D - Missouri), Sure. You couldn t take a hand gun. You couldn t get it in there. You couldn t even hold a competition. We want to say, look if I m qualified in both states, to purchase a hand gun. Well, Hughes says for rifle and shot gun, why not for a hand gun? William Hughes (D - New Jersey), Because present a major threat. Harold would open up Pandora s Box, the floodgates, because he would permit the sale, as long as the individual s not engaged in business, he would permit the proliferation of hand guns, which means terrorist organizations could buy hundreds and hundreds of hand guns, not keep any records, so we wouldn t have the ability to trace that hand gun in a commission of a crime. He would open up the floodgates. And we don t think that s in the public interest.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
TV studio where Hodding Carter discusses the gun control debate with guests Cokie Roberts of National Public Radio, Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post, and William J Choyke of the Dallas Morning News, guests discuss the various gun control bills in Congress and the NRA
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, The obvious question is why now, why 18 years after the original Act, do we now see such a big push for change. Howard Kurtz, The clock is ticking on President Reagan s second term and the NRA decided it was time to make its lobbying push with a friendly President in the White House. The interesting thing about that decision is if you ask the NRA about all these abuses that they re trying to change, cite some alleged horror stories from the Carter administration 6 or 7 years ago, about some supposedly law abiding citizens being harassed. What they really will tell you if you press them, is that they want to carve these changes into legislative stone because they don t know who will be President after 1988. If a Ted Kennedy administration came to town, as one NRA official told me, they want the law to be changed to protect gun dealers and other peoples. Cokie Roberts, Congress is also responding that the times have changed. The Senate debate, Ted Kennedy did actually get up and speak during the Senate debate. And it was none of the emotion and passion that we saw earlier when the 68 law was passed, after those assassinations, after those riots in the streets. You just didn t see any of that in the Senate this time around. And I think that if you start to look at it, you see that even though Americans, the majority of Americans, favor gun control, that many more of them are beginning to identify as we the gun owners, rather than they the gun owners. Close to half the population owns guns. More than half the population says they ve been victimized by violent crime of some kind. So that there s a shifting public opinion on it as well as the NRA clout.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
William J Choyke, This bill though is not only a bill for gun owners, it s really a bill for gun dealers in many respects, particularly about 225,000 small gun dealers across the country. And these are the ones the NRA says needs to be helped out, the record keeping procedures of S49 or the Volkmer substitute would really alleviate some of the problems these folks have been having. Rightly or wrongly, that s the NRA position. So it really is more of a gun dealer s bill, than a gun owner s bill. Hodding Carter, But this is it. We have an administration, perhaps the first one since 68, actively seen as being in favor of loosening Cokie Roberts, Well, remember President Reagan going to the NRA in 1980 and saying Fellow Members . It was one of the groups he courted quite actively in that campaign.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, Let me deal with that question of shifting public perceptions and public pressure. Is there now less concern out there about guns among people as you see it? Howard Kurtz, I don t think there is less concern about hand guns, particularly in urban areas. And the NRA likes to cast this debate in terms of firearms and the Second Amendment, but the single most controversial provision in the Volker bill is allowing people to make sales hand guns across state lines. I think there s still a lot of concern about hand guns. And I think that s one reason the police groups are up in arms about some of the provisions of this bill. And that s where the emotion in this debate lies, not so much in Congress, but in the police groups who are now involved in this bitter split with the NRA. Hodding Carter, Bill, why? Why are the police now way on the opposite side from places they ve been before? William J Choyke, For two reasons, one is that they have been fighting the NRA for the last 6 years on a bill called The Armor Piercing Bullets which is right now in conference. The NRA has been fighting this bill which would basically outlaw the sale and manufacture of bullets that would pierce the metal protectors. Secondly is that the police believe the bill would really hurt them in tracing weapons, partially what Howard was talking about, the interstate sales. And make it more difficult to trace the weapons that were recovered in a crime, as well as attempt to trace the people of course. Cokie Roberts, I think that they also feel quite personal about it. As we saw earlier in the program with those tape clips of policemen talking. Armor piercing bullets are really designed to get nobody but them. And they really feel that why would anybody want to make that legal when the only thing it s going to effect is policemen. Hodding Carter, And the hand gun question really appeals to them because they re the ones who see the effects most often.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, But let s go back to something though. What often seems to be said by gun control advocates is that it s the naughty NRA against all the good people. Now that can t be true or the Senate would not have passed it at quite that level, or would it? Howard Kurtz, In fact the NRA has put out, and maybe both sides have put out, a lot of misinformation on this debate. For example, at one point the NRA claimed that 75% of all the criminal cases involving firearms violations were against law abiding citizens. Well in fact it s just the opposite, of the people charged have criminal records. The NRA tries to paint this a us the law abiding citizens and them the criminals, but in fact lots of crimes are committed by people who have access to handguns. Hodding Carter, But let s just say that s right, nonetheless, Senators and Congressmen and able to obtain information for themselves. If you re right, they know it. Cokie Roberts, But the list actually is the way you depict it. In fact when you look at the list of supporters and opponents of the bills, the supporters of the loosening bill, the Volkmer bill, really is just the NRA and other groups like it, The Citizens for the Right to Bear Arms, The National Coalition Against Hand Gun Control Hodding Carter, But the margin in the Senate was almost 6 to 1.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
William J Choyke, Also, you must remember that the NRA is not just a people bill, it s a gun industry bill - in terms of the NRA represents a lot of gun industry and major manufactures as well as small designers, etc. So it s important to recognize the fact that not only can they generate the mass mail, but they also have some powerful corporations behind them. Howard Kurtz, It also wasn t until the police started fulminating about this and pointing out some of the more dangerous provisions, even Attorney General Ed Meese expressing reservations, that members of Congress really focused on the fact that this was more than eased record keeping, that there was some serious problems. Cokie Roberts, They can make an enormous amount of noise in a political campaign too. And they ve done it in campaign after campaign. They not only give money, which they give vast amounts of, but they also are very highly organized in a political campaign and make trouble for somebody. Hodding Carter, Which now comes to the vote scheduled for April 9th, 10th or whatever, very soon. Is the Hughes substitute going to pass or will the Son of 49 pass? Howard Kurtz, It will probably be some sort of hybrid. The Hughes - Rodino advocates are basically playing defense. They would like to put some amendments on Son of S49 that would preserve some of the law enforcement concerns. I don t think they think they have enough votes to pass their own bill outright. William J Choyke, Hughes is having a rear-guard action. He s got 8 or 9 amendments to the Volkmer bill. And I think that he s hoping to get that as a law enforcement amendment passed and then members can say they voted for the Volkmer substitute. Cokie Roberts, I would agree with that. The main thing that Hughes has going for him, the people who want to keep hand gun control strong have going for them, is the police, as we ve seen. So they are likely to get something that pleases the police passed. Hodding Carter thanks his guests and closes out show.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
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Capitol Journal - Gun Control
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