Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). The committee will come to order. I am going to ask the witness questions about the exhibit testified to by the witness Sloan, entitled "Transactions as of April 7, 1972, cash deposits and disbursements including committed items." This has already been entered in the record as exhibit and I ask that this copy be handed to Maurice Stans. This represents, as I understand, what Mr. Sloan, the Treasurer of the Finance Committee To Re-Elect the President, testified was the cash receipts of the finance committee down to April 7, 1972, plus such portions of those receipts that had been submitted for various purposes. If my arithmetic is correct, this shows the total cash receipts of approximately $1,777,000, is that correct? Maurice Stans. That is the figure on the statement, yes, sir. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, is it a correct figure, approximately? Maurice Stans. So far as I know from information that I have acquired during the entire course of my chairmanship of the committee, it is approximately correct.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Now, it shows that of this amount $750,000 was deposited, leaving $1,027,000 of which Mr. Sloan testified he gave approximately an item of $10,000 to Nofziger, an item of $15,000 to Stone which may have been paid by checks rather than by cash, leaving cash disbursement of $1,002,000, is that, approximately correct? Maurice Stans. That would be the correct, arithmetic yes, sir.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Now, this committee has authority under Senate Resolution No. 60 to investigate every campaign contribution made in connection with the Presidential campaign of 1972 or any campaign preceding it. If this committee would call on you as Chairman of the Finance Committee To Re-Elect the President for a statement of the persons who contributed this approximately $1,777,000 to the committee could you give us such a statement. Maurice Stans. Mr. Chairman, I would tell you that $233,000 of it came from Mr. Kalmbach from the 1968 money that he turned over to the committee and approximately $1,500,000 came from contributors. And given a little time I could, I believe, continue the reconstruction I have underway as to who gave the rest of the money. I believe that I could tell you where that money came from, from various records, from discussions I have had with people, from my own recollection and others I have been reconstructing that detail of figures over a period of time.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, are the records now in existence without having to have them reconstructed that would disclose the names and amounts of each contributor? Maurice Stans. There are a considerable amount of records now in existence that would show that, yes. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Why are there not complete records in existence that would show that? Maurice Stans. Well, at one time, Mr. Chairman, some of the records were removed from the committee's files and destroyed. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Why were they destroyed? Maurice Stans. They were destroyed because there was no requirement that they be kept and insofar as contributors were concerned we wanted to respect the anonymity that they had sought and that they were then entitled to under the law. We are talking now about, contributions before April 7, 1972. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Were they destroyed before or after the break in? Maurice Stans. They were destroyed after the break in and I would insist, Mr. Chairman, that there is no relevance between the two.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, in other words, you had no desire to hide the records? Maurice Stans. No. May I make the point, here Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Destroy and to hide them? Maurice Stans. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sloan's accounting for these funds were given to me on June 23. The only reason it was on June 23 was that he was waiting for Mr. Kalmbach to come back from Europe to check the figure of amounts paid to Mr. Kalmbach. This statement was ready by Mr. Stone several weeks before the Watergate affair. And he tendered it to me and I said I didn t want it until he had checked out the figures with Mr. Porter, Liddy, and everyone else to how much they had received. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, those figures merely gave a summary of the totals, did they not? Maurice Stans. Yes, that s right. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). They did not contain any record of the names and amounts, the names of contributors and the amounts of contributions and it did not contain any records about how the funds were disbursed and used, did they? Maurice Stans. There are records that show the amounts of the contributions and I have been able to verify and reconstruct most of those. The only thing that is missing Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). I am not talking about the reconstruction, I am talking about the record that Mr. Sloan gave you on the 23d of June, 6 days after the break in. Maurice Stans. That record, Mr. Chairman, to the best of my recollection, I destroyed. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). You did destroy it? Maurice Stans. Yes.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). And you swear upon your oath that there is no connection between the destruction of these records and the break in of the Watergate or any fear that the press or the public might find out from these records what the truth was about these matters? Maurice Stans. Well, let me speak only with respect to myself. I will say to you that there was no connection between my destruction of the summary sheets given to me by Mr. Sloan and the Watergate affair. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, it was quite a queer coincidence, wasn t it? Maurice Stans. Coincidence Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). It s rather a suspicious coincidence that the records which showed these matters were destroyed 6 days after the break in at the Watergate. Maurice Stans. Mr. Chairman, the adjectives are yours. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Sir? Maurice Stans. The adjectives that you are using, queer coincidence and suspicious Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Don't you think it is rather suspicious? Maurice Stans. No, I do not think so, Senator. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Do you think it is normal of the kind of thing to expect people who had records concerning outlays of campaign funds to destroy those records after five men are caught in an act of burglary with money that came from the committee in their pockets? Maurice Stans. On April 6 I asked Mr. Sloan to build up the records of all the contributors and he did so. I asked him on April 10 before I left on my vacation to balance out his cash account. He did both of those things pursuant to my requests. Now, the fact that they came to me after the Watergate was pure and innocent coincidence,
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, why did you destroy the records? Maurice Stans. For the reason I have already said, Mr. Chairman. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well you not only destroyed the prior records but you destroyed the record he made you on June 23 after the Watergate break in. Maurice Stans. I do not know what you mean by destruction of prior records. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, don t you know that Mr. Sloan destroyed his records as treasurer? Maurice Stans. Mr. Sloan only destroyed, to the best of my knowledge, one book of account as treasurer and that he did, according to testimony, on the instructions of Mr. Kalmbach. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). And that was the only book of accounts he had wasn't it? Maurice Stans. Oh no, he had hundreds of books of accounts. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Did you see them? Maurice Stans. I have seen some of them since. I never saw the books of account during the time they were being created.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Mr. Stans, don t you know that the records he destroyed were the only original records he had in respect to these cash accounts? Maurice Stans. The record that he destroyed was so far as I know the only original record he had of these cash transactions, that is correct. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Yes. Maurice Stans. But, as I said we have been able to, Mr. Sloan has been able to reconstruct the expenditures by this account that you have before you and I have been able to reconstruct the contributions and we can account for the money I believe, quite accurately. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). You have reconstructed the totals of the expenditures. You haven t reconstructed any records which show for what items these expenditures were made, have you? Maurice Stans. Now, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sloan has reconstructed this list of expenditures. And I do not know the items for which these expenditures were made. I have testified to that.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, don't you think it was, very unwise on Mr. Sloan's part to destroy the only original records the committee had of cash amounts received and expended? Maurice Stans. I didn't get your question Sir. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Don't you think that it was very unwise on the part of Sloan to destroy the only original records of cash receipts and expenditures? Maurice Stans. There were reasons at the time. In retrospect we would have saved an awful lot of questions if we had kept them. But we had reasons which we believed were valid and which were based on legal advice that we did not need to keep those records. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Was as Mr. Liddy the one who gave you the legal advice to destroy the records? Maurice Stans. Mr. Liddy was one of those who gave us legal advice. I remind the chairman in all fairness that at the time Mr. Liddy gave us the legal advice he was in good standing as our counsel. There was no reason to suspect him in any way, and he was doing a good job as counsel. Now, I did get opinions from others including John Dean and including Rohmer McPhee.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Why did you destroy the summary which Mr. Taylor gave you on the 23d of June? Maurice Stans. The summary which Mr. Sloan gave me? Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Yes. Maurice Stans. I have testified before that I had it on my desk for days, but I was interested in the names of the contributors because I wanted to be sure that we had a record of that. That I was interested in the balance he had on hand. That I was not interested, it was not my concern nor interest to know who the disbursements had gone to. Mr. Sloan had balanced that all out with the people had gotten the money. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). What I am asking you is why were you interested in destroying the things you were interested in. Maurice Stans. Because Edward Gurney (R Florida). Mr. Chairman, I wonder if we can have some order in this hearing. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). I will ask the members of the audience not to demonstrate their Maurice Stans. For two reasons, Mr. Chairman, which I will try to explain again: No. 1, it was possible to determine at any time from remaining records and from the recollection of people who had given that money. No. 2, under the law as we understood it, based upon advice of counsel there was no requirement that we keep these records. And as I testified yesterday the opinion of counsel was to the effect that we didn't have to keep any records before April 7 if we didn't want to. Now, we kept 99 percent of our records.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 13, 1973 Testimony of Maurice Stans
Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Except you kept no records of the cash receipts and expenditures. Maurice Stans. That not quite correct, Mr. Chairman, We have kept some records and we have been able from those records to reconstruct what has happened. Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). Well, why destroy your previous records and why destroy your subsequent records and reduce yourself to the necessity of reconstructing something that you already had and destroyed? Maurice Stans. Very simply for the reason Sam Ervin (D - North Carolina). It s too simple for me to understand, really. Maurice Stans. Mr. Chairman, for the reason that we were seeking to protect the privacy, the confidentiality of the contributions on behalf of the contributors.