Waco Hearings - DAY 1
Waco Hearings - DAY 1
WACO HEARINGS: 5:57 - 7:00PM - Master Number 10909 - INTRODUCTION: The following footage of the Waco Hearings consists of questioning of the second group of panelists. Representative McCollum, Conyers, Clinger, Schiff, Collins, Green and Jackson Lee pose questions to the various panelists. This round of questioning concludes, the chairmanship turns back over to Rep. Zeliff, and the third group of panelists to called forward. Congressman Barr is the only Representative who asks questions of the new panelists during this tape. 17:57:05 - 18:00:40 The Sub-Committee Chamber is shown in recess. 18:00:41 Chairman McCollum calls the Chamber back to order. He asks a question of Mr. Barber concerning his motivation for calling in the ATF. Mr. Barber states that the combination of the grenade casings and the explosive materials being received through the UPS prompted his office to call in the ATF on Koresh. Rep. McCollum then asks Mr. Barber about possible drug manufacturing at the compound, but Mr. Barber states his office wasn't concerned about possible drug manufacturing at that time. 18:03:51 Rep. Conyers begins his questioning by asking Mr. Thibideaux if the NRA contacted him about the hearings. He responds no. Rep. Conyers asks the same question of Mr. McMahon. He responds yes, and states that a Mr. Warner contacted him yesterday, meaning 07/18/1995. After making statements concerning the Exclusionary Rule, Rep. Conyers asks Mr. Duchamp about the validity of the search warrant. Mr. Duchamp states the warrant is valid. 18:10:08 Rep. Clinger asks Mr. McMahon if the NRA attempted to influence his sworn testimony. He replies no. 18:10:48 Rep. Schiff asks what subjects Mr. Thibideaux wanted to bring to the hearing's attention. He replies that in 1992 Texas authorities come and investigated the conditions of the compound's children, and found them to be in both good mental and physical condition. Mr. Thibideaux also states that following the Texas DCFS visit, Koresh invited officers from the local sheriff's office to visit the compound. Next, Mr. Thibideaux states angrily that the ATF issued a "knock" search warrant, but in doing so, used excessive and an unnecessary force. Mr. Thibideaux's main point is that Koresh repeatedly attempted to work positively with local law enforcement. 18:15:20 Mr. Conyers asks Mr. McMahon to present a written description of his association with the NRA. He says that he will consider doing so. Rep. Conyers then asks Mr. Thibideaux about Koresh saying, "Let's talk about this.," in reference to, his later testimony, in which he states that he was no where near Koresh at that time. How then, Rep. Conyers asks, was it possible for him to hear that remark. Mr. Thibideaux clarifies his remarks by stating that he was told that Koresh had made those remarks, but that, he himself, had never heard him speak those words. 18:16:44 Rep. Collins asks Mr. Jewel, in his own opinion, what Koresh would do if authorities ever came after him. He replies, that Koresh stated to him n a conversation that he would fight back if he was ever sought after. 18:17:53 Rep. Green asks Mr. McMahon about the grenades Koresh had ordered through the UPS, and then if it was possible for them to be converted into live ammunitions. Mr. McMahon agrees it is possible, but states he isn't qualified to answer the question. 18:19:07 Congresswoman Jackson Lee begins her questioning by asking Mr. Jewel to define Koresh's view of religion, or as she terms it, his cult. Mr. Jewel states religions push us to be everything that we can be. Koresh taught his followers to be obedient, to not think for them selves and to understand he was free to change his mind at any time. Rep. Jackson Lee then asks Mr. McMahon if he had ever visited the compound. He says that he has. She then asks about the children under the age of 5 years of age, and if Koresh was a licensed gun dealer. He states that he saw young children, but that no, Koresh was not a licensed dealer. She then asks Mr. McMahon to describe the extent of Koresh's gun collection. He states he sold Koresh about 223 guns. 18:21:42 - 18:23:47 Chairman McCollum works through various parliamentary inquiries from various Representatives, and then turns the Chairmanship back over to Representative Zeliff. 18:24:15 Chairman Zeliff calls the third panel forward to be sworn in. He introduces David Aguilera; ATF Special Agent, Chuck Sarafyn; former ATF Special Agent In Charge from Huston, Texas, Earl Dunagan; former ATF Special Agent In Charge from Houston, Texas, Bill Johnston; Assistant US Attorney in Waco, Texas, Dan Hartnett; former ATF Deputy Director For Enforcement, Ed Owen; ATF Firearms Expert, H. Jeffery Molton Junior; Project Director of the Treasure Department Review Team and Dr. Bruce Perry; Associate Professor of Psychiatry and Behavior Sciences at Baylor University Medical College in Waco, Texas. 18:27:24 Congressman. Barr begins his questioning by asking Mr. Johnston to define, "dynamic entry." Mr. Johnston replies that he is not familiar with the term, but theorizes its' meaning as, police activity involving a search warrant where those involved are not invited, and as a result, suffer injury. Rep. Barr then asks him if he believes the entry at Mount Carmel to be a dynamic entry. He replies that it was. Continuing, Rep. Barr asks a series of questions pertaining to the ATF's preparations prior to serving the search warrant to Koresh. Mr. Johnston replies he knew only a few details. Congressman Barr then asks him about the possibility there was a clover-up at Waco, and introduces three documents, reads from them and then asks Mr. Johnston to comment. Mr. Johnston states it's normal after a shooting incident for the ATF to create a Shooting Review Team in order to interview the agents involved, and that such a team was formed for Waco in early March of 1993. Continuing on, Mr. Johnston states that the ATF attempted to investigate itself, but such action would have been improper for several reasons. He ordered that the Texas Rangers complete the interviews of ATF Agents. Rep. Barr then asks a pointed question as to why the Federal Government deliberately directed that evidence not be gathered. Mr. Johnston clarifies his role in the investigation, but doesn't address the question. 18:45:14 Chairman Zeliff recesses the hearings. 18:59:09 TAPE OUT.