Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Master 10363 Part 1 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Daniel INOUYE. And you want the committee to believe that at the time you made your decision to be involved in this illegal act, you felt that men like McGovern, Muskie and O'Brien were involved in this national conspiracy of bombing and inciting violence? Mr. James McCORD. No sir I didn't testify to that and I don't want the committee to believe that. I'm stating what my reasons and motivations were at the time and what they hinged around which was a participation with the attorney general, and the council for the president. Senator INOUYE. And yet you've indicated that one of your projected plans called for the bugging of Mr. O'Briens private residence. Isn't that so? Mr. McCORD. No, it was initially proposed that that be done, that is was never done, that his office was bugged yes sir in the democratic national committee. Senator Sam ERVIN. If the senator would pardon me .... Senator INOUYE. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. It was the official position of the department of justice that they could bug to discover domestic subversion without applying for a warrant. And it was by a strange coincidence it was June 19th, 1972 when the Supreme Court first handed down a unanimous decision rejecting that position of the department of justice. Mr. McCORD. I think there's also sir, if I may add at this time ..... Senator INOUYE. Mr. Chairman I'm aware of that, and I just want Mr. McCord to tell us that these men were involved in domestic subversion. And Mr. McCord is not just another citizen, he is a colonel in the air force, holds two degrees from two universities, a very learned man, distinguished service with the FBI and the CIA. Mr. McCORD. No sir ... Senator INOUYE. Changing the subject sir now, did you have a contingency plan in the event of an arrest? Mr. McCORD. Did I have or did the group have sir? Senator INOUYE. Did the group have? Mr. McCORD. There were very general contingency plans, the main contingency planning was simply in terms of access from the building itself in case the men were caught. Senator INOUYE. What about attorney's? Mr. McCORD. None that I knew of, no sir. Senator INOUYE. I gather from prior evidence that all of you had alias'. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, to my knowledge. Senator INOUYE. One man had a Mexican passport made out in an alias, another had a drivers license from New York made out in a phony name, another from Massachusetts likewise. Where were these identity cards made? Mr. McCORD. I do not know sir. Senator INOUYE. Where was yours made? Mr. McCORD. I do not know sir, it was given to me by Mr. Hunt. I have no idea. Senator INOUYE. You did not ask? Mr. McCORD. No sir. I can explain how I received it if that's any, up to you. Senator INOUYE. Was it a professionally made identity card? Mr. McCORD. It appeared to be. Senator INOUYE. Can you tell us how you got it? Mr. McCORD. Yes, the evening of June 17th Mr. Hunt handed some identification to me and said "Put this in your pocket in case you need it, when you go by the guard, if you go by the guard and he asks any questions concerning who you are". I took it and glanced at it briefly and put it in my pocket. The identification was under the name of Edward J. Warren. Senator INOUYE. You have indicated that your activities were limited to just two Watergate break-ins and an attempted one for the Muskie and McGovern headquarters. Is that correct? Mr. McCORD. That's correct, yes sir. Senator INOUYE. You were not involved in any other activity? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Was Mr. Odle aware of your activities? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Did you at any time discuss the possibilities of other activities with him? Mr. McCORD. No sir, and to the best of my knowledge he was in no way involved in any of the watergate planning or the operations themselves. Senator INOUYE. The highest official that you have met according to your statement is Mr. Liddy and Mr. Magruder? Mr. McCORD. Met in what connection sir? Senator INOUYE. Directly involved in this activity. Mr. McCORD. I talked the matter over with Mr. Liddy only. I had many meetings, contacts with Mr. Mitchell and Mr. Magruder. Senator INOUYE. Did you have any contact with Mr. Dean directly? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. Did you discuss this matter with Mr. Dean? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Did you have any direct contact with the attorney general? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes sir. Senator INOUYE. To discuss this matter? Mr. McCORD. No sir, I previously testified to that, I did not. And I've testified to the reasons.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator INOUYE. Were you meeting the attorney general at the time you were planning this watergate activity? Mr. McCORD. I did not meet with him in planning sessions, I saw him regularly during that period, yes sir. Senator INOUYE. You were not curious enough to bring it up with him? Mr. McCORD. I trusted Mr. Liddy, he said that he would discuss it with him. I felt that if the attorney general cared to discuss it with me, he would raise it. Senator INOUYE. You had no desire to bring it up on your own? Mr. McCORD. I had no reason to question that Mr. Liddy would not mention to him, I was participating. I had no desire to proceed beyond that, he said that he would, I accepted his word for it. Senator INOUYE. Mr. Chairman, I believe my time has expired, thank you very much. Thank you Mr. McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Sam ERVIN. Senator Weicker. Senator Lowell Weicker (R-CT). Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. McCord, who hired Al Baldwin? Mr. McCORD. I did sir. Senator WEICKER. Did you hire him, or was it a decision involving you and another person? Mr. McCORD. His initial employment was in the sequence of an interview by me, in a subsequent interview with Mr. Fred LaRue of the committee in which the final commitment was made by Mr. LaRue, that's the sequence. Senator WEICKER. So that actually the final decision as to Mr. Baldwin s employment was made by Mr. LaRue, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. Now Mr. McCord, do you know Robert Mardian? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. And in what connection do you know him? Mr. McCORD. I first met him when he came to the committee for the re-election of the president sir. Senator WEICKER. When you say you first met him, would you care to describe that meeting? Mr. McCORD. I believe the first meeting with him was in May, late May as best as I recall shortly after he came to the committee. And as I recall his driver was being employed by the committee as a driver, and we had some discussion in that context at that time. Senator WEICKER. You had discussions with Mr. Mardian or his driver? Mr. McCORD. With Mr. Mardian. Senator WEICKER. Can you give me the substance of those conversations? Mr. McCORD. That conversation was something to the effect that the driver was being considered as a driver for Mr. Mitchell and I inquired about the mans background, and he stated that he'd been a very satisfactory driver for him, he felt that he'd do a good job for Mr. Mitchell. Senator WEICKER. Did you know what position Mr. Mardian held at the time that you talked to him? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes. Senator WEICKER. Could you please state for the committee what that position was? Mr. McCORD. He was, as I recall a special assistant to Mr. Mitchell and one of the functions of Mr. Mitchell had for him for the committee. Senator WEICKER. I beg your pardon? Mr. McCORD. He was a special assistant to Mr. Mitchell. Senator WEICKER. And in the performance of those duties or can you describe what you understood his duties to be as an special assistant to Mr. Mitchell? Mr. McCORD. I understood general assignments from Mr. Mitchell, I did not know the specific details of everything that he was involved with at all. We talked a bit about Miami and the Miami convention and our concern over security there and I knew that he had some functions in connection with that. Senator WEICKER. At the time of our first executive session Mr. McCord, I asked you the question in "What connection you knew Robert Mardian?" and at that time you took the fifth during that sworn interview. Is there any reason why you would not like to, or would go and describe now as to why you felt that was necessary at that moment in time? Mr. McCORD. I believe it was taken on the advice of council at that point in time. I can't recall the specific questions, question that was asked at that period, if it could be restated I could give you the reason. Senator WEICKER. The specific question was, Have you had any contact with Robert Mardian at any time? Mr. McCord - yes sir. Senator Weicker - Could you describe to the committee what that contact consisted of? Mr. McCord - I'll take the fifth on that. Mr. McCORD. It's pretty clear. There had been, I can give you now my reasons as best I recall for that answer. There had been an article in Time Magazine it seems to me in August or so 1972 in which there was an allegation against Mr. Mardian. As I recall it, that he was not only in charge of the watergate operation, but that he had some other political intelligence activities that he was involved with in the committee to re-elect the president. I knew that, I had no knowledge of his involvement of the watergate operations themselves. I knew that he had some function in connection with the, some functions with the convention at Miami. And I believe that was the reason that I took the fifth at that time as I recall it. Senator WEICKER. Did you or the Committee to Re-Elect the President receive reports from the internal security division of the Justice department? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, I did.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator WEICKER. Was Mr. Mardian head of that division? Mr. McCORD. He had been sir. Senator WEICKER. Did you receive copies of FBI reports? Mr. McCORD. I can explain a partial answer to that sir, if you want I mean an answer that involves FBI reports. I had raised with I believe with Mr. Odle the problem of receiving adequate information concerning violence and demonstrations that might effect the committee headquarters in Washington and subsequently the committee headquarters in Miami and I asked if there were anyway in which there could be a some type of liaison to receive information from the FBI specifically, because I knew that they would have information that was not available to us and we knew that such information was being made available to both parties before the convention itself, if it directly effected those parties. As I recall, he sent a memorandum to Mr. Mitchell asking for approval of my contact with that organization. The next that I heard, was a call from Mr. Mardian in which he referred to that memorandum and he stated that Mr. Mitchell had given approval to my contact to acquire that type of information and that I should go to the internal security division of the Department of Justice for such information as did effect, might effect the security of the committee would be made available to me. Some of which was of the type you described, FBI reports yes sir. Senator WEICKER. So, you received data from the internal security division of the justice department .... Mr. McCORD. I did. Senator WEICKER. ... and you received data from the FBI? Mr. McCORD. Not the FBI directly, no sir. Senator WEICKER. From whom did you receive such data? Mr. McCORD. From the internal security division. I don't believe that the FBI was ever aware of that. Senator WEICKER. And from what individual did you receive such information? Mr. McCORD. I believe it was through the chief of the evaluation section, I believe his name was Mr. John Martin. Senator WEICKER. I'm sorry I didn't hear the name. Mr. McCORD. John Martin. Senator WEICKER. John Martin was your contact? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. At the internal security division of the Justice department, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, that's correct. Senator WEICKER. Would it be correct to say that Mr. Martin is the chief of the analysis and evaluation section? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. And where did you meet Mr. Martin? Mr. McCORD. At his office, at the Department of Justice. Senator WEICKER. Who knew aside from Mr. Martin that you were receiving this material? Mr. McCORD. Well, his deputy there at the evaluation section. I believe the name is Lisker, I'm not absolutely certain Mr. Martin, Mr. Mitchell ...... Senator WEICKER. I'm not anxious to have any names here, unless there can be some identification. I have before me a position report on this Internal Security Division. Could you tell me whether or not the name listed as deputy there is a name that you recognise right at the top under Mr. Martin's name? (lawyer walks over paperwork to James McCord) Mr. McCORD. That's correct sir. Joel Lisker. Senator WEICKER. Would you please give the name then to the committee. Mr. McCORD. Joel Lisker. Senator WEICKER. Alright, may I repeat again the question we were working on, who knew you were receiving the material? Who else aside Mr. Martin and Mr. Lisker? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Mardian of course, Mr. Mitchell had initialed the memorandum that I subsequently saw on this, Mr. Robert Odle, at least those persons. Senator WEICKER. Mr. Odle? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. You say that there was a subsequent memorandum? Mr. McCORD. The memorandum which Mr. Odle wrote on this subject I subsequently received which had Mr. Mitchells initials on it.