Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 22, 1973 - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator Lowell P. WEICKER, Jr. (R-CT). Mr. McCord, I'd like to clear up one technical point and I think also in the point of fairness you've placed the actions of your former attorney Mr. Alch in what I might be charitably called an unfavorable light and I assume if this committee chooses to hear Mr. Alch's side of the story, we're not going to have points of attorney client privilege raised? Mr. McCORD. No sir, you will not. Senator WEICKER. Now, Mr. McCord I'd like to go back to the questioning that we started last week, and to start at the beginning with your first visit to the Triangle building. At that meeting, would you tell the committee as to who attended the meeting? The first meeting at the Triangle Building. Mr. McCORD. I can state my recollection of it, I believe I was the only one from the committee for the re-election of the president to attend it, along with Mr. Joel Lisker, Mr. John Martin, the two men I referred to as the chief and deputy chief of that activity. We met in Mr. John Martin's office, we talked I would guess for about 45 minutes, we talked on the general subject of access of mine to the reports, and he repeated, he stated the two matters I've repeated that he had received a call from Mr. Mardian and that he had checked it with his superiors. Senator WEICKER. Right, was Mr. Houston present at the first meeting? Mr. McCORD. I don't recall that Mr. Robert Houston who was one of my assistants, was present at the first meeting, he may have been, my recollection was that he was not. I think he appeared later when I had other duties to perform and I think in particular when I went to Miami to do a survey I've referred to here. Senator WEICKER. In other words there were at subsequent times when Mr. Houston might have been with you at the Triangle Building, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, I can recall a couple of times. (View from behind Senator Weicker of committee table and Mr. McCord seated testifying) Senator WEICKER. Now, at this first meeting, would it be fair to say that the procedures were discussed by which you would have access to these, the ground rules laid out as to how you would have access to this information? Mr. McCORD. I believe so, yes sir. Senator WEICKER. The procedures included, well would you please tell the committee access to this information was in your going to the Triangle Building, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Primarily. Senator WEICKER. Primarily, was it also discussed that this particular section on it's own initiative could go ahead and contact you at the committee to re-elect the president? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator WEICKER. Now, you have fairly extensive experience with both the FBI and the CIA, is it possible for you to identify material that has been obtained from wire-taps or is that an impossible situation? Mr. McCORD. No sir I could not and I can answer your question of it refers to this group, that I saw nothing ..... Senator WEICKER. No, please my question is in a much more general sense, is it possible, specifically is it possible for you with your background to identify material sitting before you, which material has been obtained from wire-taps? Mr. McCORD. I'd say it would be exceedingly rare if I were able to do so. Senator WEICKER. So, it is also true then under those circumstances that material set before you could or could not be obtained from wire-taps? Mr. McCORD. Possibly. Senator WEICKER. Now, I know that you made an effort at the last hearing to state your recollection of what materials you received. Have you given any additional thought to that, is it possible for you to be a little more complete then you were the last time as to what documents and types of information you received from this particular division of the Justice Department? Mr. McCORD. I can recall one or two things specifically, I believe I made reference in my earlier testimony today to information about the forgery of college press credentials in connection with plans of more than one individual to gain access to both the Democratic National convention site in Miami and to the Republican National Convention site and specifically to use such forged credentials for the purpose of getting access to the communication centers and to blowing up those centers. This report I distinctly remember seeing and I passed some information on it along to my own superiors.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
(MS Senators seated at table, Senator Weicker drinking glass of water) Senator WEICKER. Well, I don't intend to take up the time of the committee here, but I wish that you would as best as you can think about this matter, if there are any other matters which came into your possession that you've not told the committee about would you be good enough to supply the committee with memorandum indicating such material. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, I will do so. Senator WEICKER. Let me ask you this, do you still have in your possession any of the documents which you've received from this division of the Justice Department? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator WEICKER. What happened to this material then, was it destroyed? Mr. McCORD. I don't recall our taking any material at all from the Internal Security Division offices. I dictated a memorandum at their offices onto a tape of one report that I had read and I turned that tape over to your committee some time back. Senator WEICKER. Now, on what particular occasions did the Internal Security Division take the initiative and call you? Mr. McCORD. Particularly during the last two weeks of May, 1972 when there were sizable numbers of demonstrators in Washington, and their plans were being formulated by some of the violence oriented elements within those demonstrators for confrontation with the police and possible demonstrations. I recall one specific report in which I received a call from one of those two gentlemen stating that there had been evidence come to light that the bombing of one of the rooms at the Pentagon, the details of which had appeared in the paper a day or two before, that this had been determined to be caused by what's known as a plastic C-4 explosive, the equivalent of about 18 sticks of dynamite and he was alerting me to the effect that there was this plastic explosive being used and as a matter essentially of some forewarning that someone had in their possession this type of plastic explosive. Senator WEICKER. Mr. McCord did you actually receive any FBI reports while at the Internal Security Division? Mr. McCORD. I saw some material that was attributed to the FBI, I did not take any with me, I made extracts from some of the material that was shown to me. Senator WEICKER. Is it possible for you at all to go ahead and segregate the FBI material from the other matters that you'd been discussing here this morning, is there anything that stands out in your mind as to specifically been attributed to the FBI? Mr. McCORD. I can't recall in terms of what I've testified to today that that material directly came from FBI sources, my memory on where it came from at this point and time is not clear. Senator WEICKER. Now, those that made the calls from the Internal Security Division were they again Mr Martin and Mr Lisker? Mr. McCORD. Primarily, Mr Lisker. Senator WEICKER. Primarily, Mr Lisker? Mr. McCORD. Yes, Sir. Senator WEICKER. And were they always made to you? Mr. McCORD. Me or Mr Houston. Me primarily. Senator WEICKER. But either you or Mr Houston received these call? Mr. McCORD. Yes, Sir.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator WEICKER. Now, in your journies to the Internal Security Division, did you ever have occassion to meet Mr Guy Goodwin, the Chief of the Special Litigation Division? Mr. McCORD. I don't believe so Sir. I don't recall that name. Senator Lowell WEICKER (R-CT). You've indicated recently that the Vietnam Veterans Against the War had an office in the Democratic National Committee or McGovern Headquarters, where did you receive that information? Mr. James McCORD. I don't recall the source of it now, except that it came to me sometime during the summer of 1972. Senator WEICKER. When you say the summer of 1972, is this before June 17th? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator WEICKER. After June the 17th? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. Now how many times were you personally in contact with Robert Mardian? Mr. McCORD. I can recall two or three times. Senator WEICKER. Was this at the time that he was at the Internal Security Division or at the time that he had left that division and was working for the Committee to Re-Elect the President? Mr. McCORD. Only after he had come to the committee to re-elect the president. Senator WEICKER. You say that you had 2 or 3 personal meetings with him? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator WEICKER. There additional contacts with him by phone or were there additional contacts by phone? (McCord's lawyer Fensterwald writing notes) Mr. McCORD. I think there was a call or two, separate from the meetings, I can recall one or two calls in connection with a driver that Mr. Mardian had that we were considering for use at the committee. Senator WEICKER. Alright, can you give me an indication as to the matters that you and Mr. Mardian discussed. Mr. McCORD. I can recall the subject of the driver that I've just referred to .... Senator WEICKER. And you're referring to that at the last hearing also? Mr. McCORD. Yes. Senator WEICKER. So, I think that's well placed on the record. Mr. McCORD. The subject of the access to the materials that we'd been discussing at the Internal Security Division, there was one meeting in connection with that that I can recall. (long pause as McCord thinks, wearing glasses) There may have been one other meeting, I can't be sure whether two or three meetings, but if it was at the second meeting or third meeting the other two topics that are raised in my memoranda today were discussed. Senator WEICKER. At any time that you were at the Internal Security Division did you see Gordon Liddy there or let's ask that question first. Mr. McCORD. (waiting) I'm sorry, I was listening for the rest of the question. (cups left ear to hear better) Senator WEICKER. I'm sorry, at any time that you were at the Internal Security Division did you see Gordon Liddy there? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator WEICKER. Do you have any knowledge that Mr. Liddy ever was at the Internal Security Division? Mr. McCORD. I had no knowledge before June 17th, after that I read in the papers that he had some access.