Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
TV studio where Hodding Carter discusses the gun control debate with guests Cokie Roberts of National Public Radio, Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post, and William J Choyke of the Dallas Morning News, guests discuss the various gun control bills in Congress and the NRA
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, The obvious question is why now, why 18 years after the original Act, do we now see such a big push for change. Howard Kurtz, The clock is ticking on President Reagan s second term and the NRA decided it was time to make its lobbying push with a friendly President in the White House. The interesting thing about that decision is if you ask the NRA about all these abuses that they re trying to change, cite some alleged horror stories from the Carter administration 6 or 7 years ago, about some supposedly law abiding citizens being harassed. What they really will tell you if you press them, is that they want to carve these changes into legislative stone because they don t know who will be President after 1988. If a Ted Kennedy administration came to town, as one NRA official told me, they want the law to be changed to protect gun dealers and other peoples. Cokie Roberts, Congress is also responding that the times have changed. The Senate debate, Ted Kennedy did actually get up and speak during the Senate debate. And it was none of the emotion and passion that we saw earlier when the 68 law was passed, after those assassinations, after those riots in the streets. You just didn t see any of that in the Senate this time around. And I think that if you start to look at it, you see that even though Americans, the majority of Americans, favor gun control, that many more of them are beginning to identify as we the gun owners, rather than they the gun owners. Close to half the population owns guns. More than half the population says they ve been victimized by violent crime of some kind. So that there s a shifting public opinion on it as well as the NRA clout.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
William J Choyke, This bill though is not only a bill for gun owners, it s really a bill for gun dealers in many respects, particularly about 225,000 small gun dealers across the country. And these are the ones the NRA says needs to be helped out, the record keeping procedures of S49 or the Volkmer substitute would really alleviate some of the problems these folks have been having. Rightly or wrongly, that s the NRA position. So it really is more of a gun dealer s bill, than a gun owner s bill. Hodding Carter, But this is it. We have an administration, perhaps the first one since 68, actively seen as being in favor of loosening Cokie Roberts, Well, remember President Reagan going to the NRA in 1980 and saying Fellow Members . It was one of the groups he courted quite actively in that campaign.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, Let me deal with that question of shifting public perceptions and public pressure. Is there now less concern out there about guns among people as you see it? Howard Kurtz, I don t think there is less concern about hand guns, particularly in urban areas. And the NRA likes to cast this debate in terms of firearms and the Second Amendment, but the single most controversial provision in the Volker bill is allowing people to make sales hand guns across state lines. I think there s still a lot of concern about hand guns. And I think that s one reason the police groups are up in arms about some of the provisions of this bill. And that s where the emotion in this debate lies, not so much in Congress, but in the police groups who are now involved in this bitter split with the NRA. Hodding Carter, Bill, why? Why are the police now way on the opposite side from places they ve been before? William J Choyke, For two reasons, one is that they have been fighting the NRA for the last 6 years on a bill called The Armor Piercing Bullets which is right now in conference. The NRA has been fighting this bill which would basically outlaw the sale and manufacture of bullets that would pierce the metal protectors. Secondly is that the police believe the bill would really hurt them in tracing weapons, partially what Howard was talking about, the interstate sales. And make it more difficult to trace the weapons that were recovered in a crime, as well as attempt to trace the people of course. Cokie Roberts, I think that they also feel quite personal about it. As we saw earlier in the program with those tape clips of policemen talking. Armor piercing bullets are really designed to get nobody but them. And they really feel that why would anybody want to make that legal when the only thing it s going to effect is policemen. Hodding Carter, And the hand gun question really appeals to them because they re the ones who see the effects most often.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
Hodding Carter, But let s go back to something though. What often seems to be said by gun control advocates is that it s the naughty NRA against all the good people. Now that can t be true or the Senate would not have passed it at quite that level, or would it? Howard Kurtz, In fact the NRA has put out, and maybe both sides have put out, a lot of misinformation on this debate. For example, at one point the NRA claimed that 75% of all the criminal cases involving firearms violations were against law abiding citizens. Well in fact it s just the opposite, of the people charged have criminal records. The NRA tries to paint this a us the law abiding citizens and them the criminals, but in fact lots of crimes are committed by people who have access to handguns. Hodding Carter, But let s just say that s right, nonetheless, Senators and Congressmen and able to obtain information for themselves. If you re right, they know it. Cokie Roberts, But the list actually is the way you depict it. In fact when you look at the list of supporters and opponents of the bills, the supporters of the loosening bill, the Volkmer bill, really is just the NRA and other groups like it, The Citizens for the Right to Bear Arms, The National Coalition Against Hand Gun Control Hodding Carter, But the margin in the Senate was almost 6 to 1.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
William J Choyke, Also, you must remember that the NRA is not just a people bill, it s a gun industry bill - in terms of the NRA represents a lot of gun industry and major manufactures as well as small designers, etc. So it s important to recognize the fact that not only can they generate the mass mail, but they also have some powerful corporations behind them. Howard Kurtz, It also wasn t until the police started fulminating about this and pointing out some of the more dangerous provisions, even Attorney General Ed Meese expressing reservations, that members of Congress really focused on the fact that this was more than eased record keeping, that there was some serious problems. Cokie Roberts, They can make an enormous amount of noise in a political campaign too. And they ve done it in campaign after campaign. They not only give money, which they give vast amounts of, but they also are very highly organized in a political campaign and make trouble for somebody. Hodding Carter, Which now comes to the vote scheduled for April 9th, 10th or whatever, very soon. Is the Hughes substitute going to pass or will the Son of 49 pass? Howard Kurtz, It will probably be some sort of hybrid. The Hughes - Rodino advocates are basically playing defense. They would like to put some amendments on Son of S49 that would preserve some of the law enforcement concerns. I don t think they think they have enough votes to pass their own bill outright. William J Choyke, Hughes is having a rear-guard action. He s got 8 or 9 amendments to the Volkmer bill. And I think that he s hoping to get that as a law enforcement amendment passed and then members can say they voted for the Volkmer substitute. Cokie Roberts, I would agree with that. The main thing that Hughes has going for him, the people who want to keep hand gun control strong have going for them, is the police, as we ve seen. So they are likely to get something that pleases the police passed. Hodding Carter thanks his guests and closes out show.
Capitol Journal - Gun Control
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Capitol Journal - Gun Control
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