Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland) questions North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Chairman Senator Daniel Inouye (D - Hawaii). Thank you very much. Senator Paul Sarbanes. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). I thank you very much Mr. Chairman. But Colonel North, first I want to touch very briefly on the subject you brought up and I just want to satisfy my curiosity about it. You mentioned, I think, on some two or three occasions that one of the things you were working towards in the Iranian initiative was to have a meeting of the Vice President with a very high ranking Iranian official. Do I recall you testimony correct? Colonel Oliver North. I did. I believe I also advocated in another document that the Secretary of State should meet with a high-ranking Iranian official. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). But here I think two or three times you mentioned the Vice President. My question is did you have any reason for thinking the Vice President would be agreeable to such a meeting? Colonel Oliver North. No, but I had good reason to believe the Vice President would be a good person to do that. And that was based on my experience with the Vice President in 1983 in El Salvador. And if I may, to answer the question in somewhat more specifically, in December of 1983 I went with the Vice President to El Salvador to address the issue of human rights, Democracy, in support for the Salvadorian army and its war against the communist guerillas in El Salvador. And during that meeting, or several meetings, in San Salvador one with provisional President Magana another one with the Defense Minister Vides Casanova and the president, then a following meeting with 31 of the field commanders of the Salvadorian army. And you will recall, Senator Sarbanes, this was a time of great difficulty and the death squads in Salvador were active and the United States government both in the Congress and in the Executive was apposed to those activities as being polarizing and destructive of the democratic process that we were trying to further and that President Magana was committed to. And in that meeting the Vice President of the United States sat down with a number of men who were violently opposed to our policy. And they were armed men. And his Secret Service detail objected to the meeting vociferously so, and tried to prevent it. And the Vice President, himself demanded that the meeting proceed and sat down in a room full of people, many of whom who were very very much opposed to our opposition, the Human Rights Program we were advocating, the judicial reform programs we were pushing and to the democratization process. And the Vice President sat there with those people and told them what must be done in order for the United States to continue its program of security assistance. It is in my humble opinion one of the bravest things I ve seen for anybody. Certainly the Vice President of the United States was a man with the kind of courage it took to have that meeting and I felt would be the kind of person appropriate for that meeting of high risk with an Iranian official of commensurate rank.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Let me Let me just come back to the question. Colonel Oliver North. That was the question. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Did you discuss the possibility of such a meeting with the Vice President at any point? Colonel Oliver North. I do not recall specifically addressing it with him, no. I do recall putting it in memoranda I sent forward to my superiors. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). And did you discuss it with staff or councilors to the Vice President, the possibility of the Vice President having a meeting with a high ranking Iranian official as part of this initiative that you were undertaking to make? Colonel Oliver North. I want to I want to just clarify that. I may well have addressed that issue with the Vice President. There was a meeting that was established with the Vice President and an Israeli official during a trip to the Mid-East. And I may have briefed the Vice President. I do not recall Senator on that proposal. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Do you recall when that was or approximately? Colonel Oliver North. I believe it was in mid 1986. I don t recall the specific date but it was in conjunction with a trip the Vice President was making. I then was in communication with the Vice President s Chief of Staff, while he was over there. And I believe that the Vice President was given a briefing, in general terms, by the Israeli official and indeed that issue may have come up. I just don t recall. By the way Senator I would not have objected at all to making that suggestion as I felt that the Vice President was as I indicated earlier a man of courage Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). No No I understand your position. I understand. I understand that in your position, that for the basis of your making it. I was just curious as to what extent the Vice President was involved in this initiative and cognizant of it. Colonel Oliver North. I have no specific recall.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Now let me turn to exhibit number 326, if council, if Mr. Sullivan could provide that to you. I want to ask just a couple of questions about it. And the reason I want to focus on it Colonel is because it seems to me that one of the questions we have to face in this hearing is how our policy is to be made. We may differ, agree or differ on the substance of what the policy should be, but we need to be clear on how we are going to arrive at that policy, particularly if people hold sharply different views about what policy should be. Now this is a memo - General Singlaub testified to this memo, when he was before the committee and what it does is sets up a - It sets up a scheme whereby the United States would provide credits and high technology to say Country A. Country A would provide advanced military weaponry to Country B. And Country B would then provide Soviet made arms, which apparently are what are used around the world on both sides in these battles, to a trading company. And then the trading company would then put the arms out I take it anywhere it choose. And it mentions here as examples Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, and Cambodia but there could have been others as well I take it. Are you familiar with this memo? Colonel Oliver North. I believe that this may be a copy of a memo that General, did you say Secord or Singlaub, sir? Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Singlaub. Colonel Oliver North. Ok. That General Singlaub had provided to me. I don t honestly recall when that was. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Now he said he discussed with Director Casey, are you aware of that? Colonel Oliver North. No I don t believe I was.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Sarbanes questions North.
Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Well now this scheme is in many respects comparable to the arrangements that you had worked out with General Secord and Mr. Hakim. Although it eliminates the three-way play amongst the nations, but it nevertheless allows in the end for support to go to these various efforts. And if you turn to the third page of the memo, the one headed Results - what the results would be of this arrangement it says the United States then has at its disposal a large and continuous supply of Soviet technology and weapons to channel to freedom fighters worldwide, mandating neither the consent or awareness of the Department of State or Congress. Now I take it, in a sense, this is another example of a covert operation capacity that you can take off the shelf that Director Casey made reference to. Do you perceive it the same way? I mean it s a comparable way, an alternative way of accomplishing that purpose. Colonel Oliver North. I have just two observations, Sir. This is not my document. People sent me many, many documents and I would not wish to be responsible for the mail I received. I have enough trouble accepting responsibility for the mail I sent. And I do not recall General Singlaub and I ever discussed this. I do not ever recall discussing this with Director Casey. And while this may well in fact, I don t even know that this was indeed found in my office, but I m sure that there are many, many things that were found in my office that I did not originate nor did I endorse just by virtue of the fact that people sent them to me. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Well Colonel let me say that the committees, just for the record, the committee did find this memorandum in your safe. Colonel Oliver North. I understand. I m not denying that. I am simply saying it is not a document I originated, that I solicited that I encouraged or that I believe I ever talked to the Director about. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). Alright just for the record let me note that General Singlaub stated that he believed it had been discussed with you, this particular memo. In any event what this memo outlines is really something comparable to what the Director, I take it you said as early as 1983 Director Casey said to you he wanted to develop an off-the-shelf covert activity capacity. Is that correct, as far back as nineteen hundred and eighty three? Colonel Oliver North. It is my recollection that it was 1984, early 1984. Senator Paul Sarbanes (D - Maryland). And this was the Secord- Hakim operation, whereby you d be able to direct activities.