Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia) questions North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Alight now let s move on and talk for a moment about the relationship between Mr. Hakim and Mr. Secord. Now Colonel North I know you ve known General Secord for many years and you have great respect for him. Colonel Oliver North. I m sorry Senator. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). No Problem. I know that you ve known General Secord for many years and have great respect for him. But isn t it true that you really didn t know very much about Albert Hakim and you still don t know much at all about the business relationship between Secord and Hakim? Colonel Oliver North. I first meet Mr. Hakim, I believe, in February of 1984. I came to recognize that this was a man who certainly wanted to assist the US government and the restoration of a relationship with his native land. Correction, I first met him in February of 1986 not 84. I don t know the nature of the financial relationship with General Secord or a business relationship that he s had. And I did not necessarily consider that to be a prerequisite of using him as an interpreter for one of our meetings or a series of meetings which occurred in Europe. Nor did I see it inconsistent that he would be engaged, after I found out about it, in establishing European entities and foreign entities, not all in Europe but some in Latin America, in support of this initiative.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Now Mr. Secord in his testimony before us said the money, the residuals, in the accounts belonged to the enterprise and that the enterprise was owned by Mr. Hakim. Did you know that? Colonel Oliver North. No. But again what I knew was that a series, a network if you will, of overseas entities had been established to carry out these activities, to the extent practical, different overseas companies would carry out discreet activities to avoid the crossover of knowledge between various operations. And thus one of the companies would carry out the purchase of land in a Central America country for the purpose of building an air strip. They would fund for that air strip, they would conduct the construction and the like where as another company would be engaged, for example, in the delivery of the munitions. And that network, as I understood it, was basically laid out for these activities by General Secord and now obviously with the assistance of Mr. Hakim. But I did not know the details of that relationship, no. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Well, I guess the point that I want to make here is that the money was controlled here not by Mr. Secord, a man who knew and trust, but rather by Mr. Hakim, a man you have admitted you hardly knew. That must come as a surprise. Colonel Oliver North. Well it does. That s one of the reasons why I said I was shocked at the magnitude of the money remaining in various accounts. I am not entirely sure that we are all speaking from the same sheet of music. And that s somewhat tongue and cheek the other day but it is somewhat serious. That when Mr. Hakim describes profit - and I am talking about what Director Casey referred to as self sustaining entities - I m not too sure that those are inconsistent. I look forward to the day when I can actually sit down and talk about where those remaining monies go with the people, whoever they are, that control them. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). I wish you could spend ten minutes with Mr. Hakim I think you could be a great help to the committee.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Now let s talk about the future of these enterprises. Did you and Bill Casey or Admiral Poindexter establish plans for the future in the event Bill Casey left the CIA or became disabled or died? Colonel Oliver North. No Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). What about your re-assignment in the Marine Corp, where there contingency plans for that? Colonel Oliver North. Well I think one of the things that Director Casey was looking to was not something that was going to be sustaining out through the 1990s in these activities. That he was talking about the use of outside entities to support limited foreign policy goals of the government. I described some of those activities to the committee the other evening in the executive session. It was not the kind of thing, I don t think, Director Casey had in mind for outliving even his tenure as Director of Central Intelligence. Although as I indicated in my testimony, we never got to that point, we were never able to establish the longer term where is it all going from here. I regarded this as an imaginative solution to some short term problems. A number of the initiatives that I briefed the committees on the other night, assumed that these were immediate, short term, once you ve conducted that activity you could put that company back on the shelf or do away with it. And that s how I saw it being pursued. It was not a matter as Representative Jenkins and I discussed, I don t think is a matter of what happens after Bill Casey goes? And Oliver North goes? Who the successor is that would carry those activities out. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). But that really is an important question is it not? Marine Colonels are reassigned, Directors of the CIA die. Mr. Secord could have suffered a disability or loss of life. Who really was going to control this operation in the future? Was there any plan in place? Colonel Oliver North. We never got to the point were a plan such as that was developed. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Well what was going to happen when the Regan administration came to an end? Colonel Oliver North. Well I think we all looked to the fact that these operations would simply shut down. I mean this was not something that would go in perpetuity. Got that one out. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). You were not going to turn it over to the Democrats then. Colonel Oliver North. You said that Senator I didn t. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). That s right I did - and with a smile on my face and that does not deserve an answer, Colonel North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Now let s move to another area if we might. Albert Hakim volunteered in his testimony that he was trying to pass money to you and your family. Earlier an attorney named David Louis called the committee and volunteered that William Zucker had asked him to find a way to get money to your wife Betsy. Now at first we didn t follow that up because it was absolutely inconsistent of our image of you. But then Hakim, a man who says that he loves you, testified that he asked Zucker to try to pass money to you. And nothing came of those efforts and we know that you were not in this for profit. And you ve spoken very powerfully and convincingly about that. But my question is this, doesn t it appear that Mr. Hakim and Zucker were trying to compromise you or set you up to gain influence or leverage? Colonel Oliver North. Senator I did not hear that testimony. I guess my concern is that this committee not have any reservations whatsoever. One, I was unaware of any activities beyond what I ve described. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Absolutely understand that. Colonel Oliver North. Number two, even if that attempt was known to me and - as I described them the other night, there were other attempts at that those things - doesn t mean that it works. I don t know the motivation of Mr. Hakim or his lawyer in trying to pursue various initiatives. I do know that having reviewed certain testimony before this committee that an indication of calls being made or arrangements being made to meet with my wife after the one meeting that I described to you and the one telephone call in the June are patently untrue. And thus the characterizations of motivations by Mr. Lewis or others or events of Mr. Lewis and others, are to my knowledge and that of my wife, totally untrue. Now I cannot speak to the motivations of those other people who have described other events. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). I appreciate your reluctance to do so. And the record certainly demonstrates that you acted most appropriately under this situation. However I ask you those questions because I really can conceive of no other reason for those initiatives. If they were really trying to help you, they would have gone to you directly, it seems to me. And they surely would not have volunteered this information as they did. But I thank you for your answer there. We ll just have to sit back and judge as best we can as the pieces of the puzzle come together.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Now let s talk about profits. There s been testimony that Mr. Hakim and Secord were reprising large profits by marking up the arms sold to the Contras. For example, Albert Hakim has testified before us that during August of 1986 Mr. Secord agreed to the suggestion of Tom Clines that they maximize the profits from the last sale of arms to the Contras. Where you aware of that? Colonel Oliver North. No. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Now Hakim is testified from his records that a profit of $861,000 was made on that 2.1 million dollar transaction. And that s a markup of about 41%. Were you aware that kind of profit was being made? Colonel Oliver North. No I was not. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Do you believe that kind of profit is fair or just? Colonel Oliver North. Again I would have to sit down and go over these issues with General Secord, who was my principal contact and Mr. Hakim. I don t know what their expenses were. I don t know what the activities were that they planned for the use of those monies. But I certainly did not know that there was anything of that magnitude in that transaction. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Were you aware that the $861,000 profit was divided equally between Hakim, Secord and clients? Colonel Oliver North. No. I testified throughout - I was unaware of the fact these accounts even existed.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). Isn t it true that taking of such outlandish profits is absolutely inconsistent with your goal of helping the Contras keep their body and soul together? Colonel Oliver North. There s no doubt that if it was done for personal gain, as I indicated in my testimony, that I never set out in any of this activity to make anybody rich. I don t know what was envisioned by those transactions. I did not know of them when they occurred and I did not know the magnitude of any of the use of those in terms of compensation. The only thing that I specified right out at the very beginning is that it was understood that fair, just, and reasonable compensation would be derived by those people involved in the activities. That included the pilots who put themselves at risk, and those involved who were taken out of their normal discourse of day to day events, day to day business, would in some way be compensated. That was the sole level of my understanding on it. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). I have no question about your motives here Colonel North. But it seems very clear to me that this kind of profit - $861,000 from a 2.1 million dollar transaction - cannot be categorized by anyone as fair or just or appropriate. You don t disagree with that. Colonel Oliver North. I didn t try to characterize it Sir. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). I understand. Now, was anyone else in the government of the United States aware of these profit margins? Colonel Oliver North. To my knowledge no one else was aware of the details of those activities at all. Senator Paul Trible (R - Virginia). So you would be the only person, and you were not aware? Colonel Oliver North. I was not. And I do not know of others who may have been.