Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah) questions North.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). In your view, would these hearings be beneficial if they result in a better understanding by Congress and the American people and the media that sometimes covert operations are necessary and that if they are given a chance to succeed they have to be kept secret? Would that a good result of these hearings? Colonel Oliver North. It certainly would Senator. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Do you think these hearings may achieve some success? And I must admit I may be out of moon shot with this one. Do you think these hearings might achieve some success if they result in Congress recognizing the President needs to be given some latitude to carry out his foreign policy objectives without 535 members of Congress, many Secretaries of State, second guessing everything the President is trying to do? Colonel Oliver North. Yes Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). You believe that don t you. Colonel Oliver North. I do. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). I believe that too. I think Congress has been interfering far too much and a reasonable foreign policy, although Congress certainly has a role? You agree with that too don t you? Colonel Oliver North. There is a role and that is the appropriation of monies to be carry out that policy too Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Well and we can look at the policy and determine whether it is good or bad. But it shouldn t be a constant micro-managing of the policy should it? Colonel Oliver North. Not at all.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Do you feel it would be a good thing if we finally learned the lesson, that the leader of the Free World and we re the leader of the Free World, and we say we re going to help a neighbor such as the freedom fighters in Nicaragua, we better dig in for the long haul rather than cutting and running every other year? Do you think that s a good thing? Colonel Oliver North. Yes sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Maybe these hearings can get that across too, do you think? Colonel Oliver North. I hope so. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Because that s what you had to face wasn t it, at the White House? Every time you thought you had things on track the Congress would come up with some other theory or different approach? Isn t that right? Colonel Oliver North. It seemed like an annual affair Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). And it not only contradicted what you were trying to do but sent different messages to the rest of the world? Is that right? Colonel Oliver North. That is correct sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Weren t you afraid the United States would seem like an unreliable partner in world affairs? Because of what we were doing up here in the Congress? Colonel Oliver North. Yes sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). In fact we are considered an unreliable partner in part by some nations in this world? Is that correct? Colonel Oliver North. By many. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). And it is precisely because of some of these things. Is that right? Colonel Oliver North. Yes Sir.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Now do you think it would it be a good thing if as a result of these hearings, we start to provide consistent support to the Contras, so that as they effectively seek to bring about a democratic resolution to the situation in Nicaragua and to insure we won t ever have to send our American boys and girls down there to fight, in that troubled region that s so close to our borders? Do you think that would be a good result to those hearings? Colonel Oliver North. Yes Sir it would. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). I do too.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Now if we don t support the Nicaraguan Democratic Resistance and ignore the Communist threat that exists right now in Central America, what in your opinion, what in your opinion, do you think might happen in the next twenty years in this hemisphere and maybe throughout the world? Colonel Oliver North. It won t take twenty years Senator. It will take a whole lot less. The consolidation of the Communist regime in Managua will result in the spread of that revolution as they themselves have advocated. You will see democracy parish in the rest of Central America, a flood of refugees crossing American borders, and potentially the construction of a Berlin type wall on the Rio Grande to keep people out. This country took over a million illegal refugees last year. Just last week we authorized 200 thousand Nicaraguans to stay in this country and that s just the tip of the iceberg. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). They are going to want to one here if we do what s right now? Colonel Oliver North. You re talking about something in the neighborhood of ten million refugees, the potential for drawing down on NATO support in order to defend our own southern border. And ultimately with the consolidation of communism in Central America, the commitment of American troops, the very thing we sought to prevent. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Well I don t think we ve heard too much about that. I m glad to hear you articulate some of those things.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Do you feel that these hearings may be important if they cause us to finally stand behind the Reagan doctrine and give assistance to the freedom fighters in Angola, Cambodia and Afghanistan, and elsewhere, where people are really committed to pushing out the Communist aggressors who want to take away their farms, and their businesses, and of course their freedoms? Colonel Oliver North. That would be a magnificent outcome Senator. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). If we could. Do you thing if as a result of these hearings both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue begin to understand just how counterproductive leaks can be? And how they jeopardize lives and National Security? Is that right? Colonel Oliver North. It would be sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). In fact, one of the points you made here, one of the reasons you said you lied, is because you were worried about lives. You re worried about sources and methods and assets and ambassadors and representatives of other nations and our own people as well. Isn t that part of problem? Colonel Oliver North. Yes Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). It s a pretty tough choice sometimes between telling the truth if it means the death of some of our most important assets in the world. Or if it means the disruption of some of our most important foreign policies in the world. I have to admit it s a tough choice. I m not sure that I m Solomonic enough to have made that choice one way or another. But I still think it s wrong to not tell the truth to Congress. But I understand why you feel the way you did.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Do you think it would be a good thing the next time the Senate intelligence committee does a 150 page secret report, such as it did in this very affair last December, was voted by the members of the committee not to release it, it not be leaked to the press. And just one segment of the press not the whole press. Do you think we ought to, do you think that would be a good thing? If we get that across? Colonel Oliver North. It would indeed Senator. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). I think so too. Do you think it would be a good thing if the result of these hearings if we reconsidered the staging of these kinds of public media shows in great detail to our international friends, our enemies, our documents, our methods, our secret plans and the details of our own National Security? Colonel Oliver North. I have testified to that end Senator. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). That s what s happened here to a degree. Colonel Oliver North. Yes Sir Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Now I have to say to you, I think these hearings are very important. In spite of that but I think that is something we have to be concerned about. And I agree with you. In that regard, would you agree that if we must ever have these kinds of hearings at all they should not be turned into forums, where persons especially those under investigation by the independent council are prematurely judged and accused of criminal conduct. Colonel Oliver North. It would have been nice Sir.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). I saw a lot of premature judging in this process. And I kind of resented it then and I still resent it today. Along these lines, a scholar once wrote How individuals who have been pilloried by Congressional investigating committees can be given a fair trial before an unprejudiced jury is hard to see unless the jury be illiterate. Would you agree with that? Colonel Oliver North. At the very least Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). And would you also agree with another statement by the same author when he states If the investigative power of Congress is unlimited, the separation of power and the system of checks and balances must break down. Is that correct? Colonel Oliver North. That was the position I ve taken throughout Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Well these statements we written, by the way, by one author, Arthur Lawrence Liman in the thesis entitled Limited Government and Unlimited Investigation. This was in partial fulfillment, now I know he is going to appreciate my comments before I get through. Colonel Oliver North. I thought I had written them Sir. Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Well let me tell you. They were true then and they are true today. It was in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Bachelor s Degree at Harvard University April 2, 1954, shortly after the McCarthy hearings. And I m personally happy to say, that regardless of what others have done here, Arthur Liman has, for the most part, conducted himself in accordance with what he wrote 33 years ago.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). Now let me just say this too you, and Mr. Chairman I ll finish with these remarks. I ve been a little tough on our committee, but I do respect these people up here and I have terrific respect for every member of this panel and for the attorneys involved. But I also have a great deal of respect for you. It isn t easy to sit there five days and go through what you ve gone through and admit what you have had to admit and express some of the mistakes that have been made. Let me just say this, based upon what I ve seen and heard in these hearings, there are mistakes here. To the extent that this was purely an arms transfer for hostages, I would have to disagree with that, if that s all that it was, but I think your answers have shown that it is more. I don t think the NSC should ever operate covert operations, I just don t think they should. And frankly, I don t think we should have had a diversion of funds here. You know I have to confess, I think it s a neat idea too to take monies from the Ayatollah and send them over to the freedom fighters in Nicaragua, what a nice use of those funds. Except you have to be - I don t think it was right. I think it points out the difficulties, points of the difficulties, it s still a neat idea I ve got to admit and I don t care who laughs. I think you were right at least, well motivated in your desires to help because we weren t helping them like we should have up here. We weren t supporting this policy in of own hemisphere. (Shot of Betsy North). Fourthly, I think these hearings point out the difficulties with privatization of our foreign policy. I m not saying it should never do it but they point out the difficulties of privatization. Last but not least and let me end with this. I think these hearings should not let the Congress escape. By gosh, I think if there is anything that ought to come out of these hearings, it ought to be that we beat our breasts and act very sanctimonious and act like we just never would have made any of these mistakes when we ve never had really the responsibility of day to day carrying them out. Now mistakes are made here. I think good people can acknowledge that and we can all agree whether we supported the policies or didn t. Mistakes have been made. But by gosh, we don t have to beat our country into submission, or people like you, just because mistakes have been made.
Iran-Contra Hearings - Testimony of Colonel Oliver North.
Senator Orrin Hatch (R - Utah). I want you to know that s it as hard for us to believe it up here, but Congress makes mistakes too. And it s been making mistakes for most of this Iran Contra and most of the Contra affair that we ve had going on in this hemisphere. Now whether you believe in supporting the Contras or not, we ought to come up with a consistent policy of support or non-support in the Congress, so everybody knows that America stands in a matter of integrity for certain things. Now I ll just be honest with you, based on what I ve heard thus far with your admission of mistakes, with your admission of some of the things you did were wrong in retrospect. And it s always easier to do these things in retrospect. I don t want you prosecuted. I don t. I don t think many people in America do. And I think there is going to be one lot of hell raised if you are. That doesn t mean they won t. That doesn t mean sticklers in the law won t pursue the last pound of flesh. But I tell you I don t want you prosecuted. Now there may be something in the remaining part of this testimony or these hearings that might change my attitude, but as of right now I don t want that to happen. And I don t think many people who ve watched this whether they believe in what you did or didn t - want that to happen. Let me tell you I think you have conducted yourself very well here. And I want to tell you I appreciate having the benefit of your testimony. Thank you Mr. Chairman.